Twelve Types of People

Twelve Kinds of People:

1) Christian -grown to full maturity and fruitfulness

“till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; (Eph4:13)

The ultimate goal. To be “hundredfold” Christians.(Mt13:23) To be Christlike. Of course, 100% fulfillment won’t be realized until we are with Him, and we see Him as He is, and are, thus, fully “like Him.”(1Jn3:2)

2) Christian -growing towards maturity. When sin or immaturity is discovered, confesses & actively strives to correct the problem

“I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press toward the goal..of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.”(Phil3:13-14) And part of Paul’s methodology to accomplish this was, “temperance in all things” as he “disciplined [his] body” to bring it “into subjection” so that he might be “qualified.” (1Cor9:24~)

And as there is sin, of which all Christians are guilty from time to time (1Jn1:8), he confesses (1:9) and receives cleansing because of Christ’s advocacy.(2:1-2)

3) Christian -passive. Just “sits” there. A nice person. Nothing drastically bad. But nothing noteworthy, either.

Has a hint of the Laodicean syndrome.(Rev3:14~) Not hot, not cold. When the works are tested, they likely get singed pretty good, or even totalled. But, he is saved.(1Cor3:15)

4) Christian -carnal. Is truly saved, but also has one foot in the world. Fear and/or lust keeps from full commitment

Here we have the Corinthian syndrome. Is characterized by immorality (1Cor5) greed, fraud, fighting (6) pride (1) idolatry (8,10) spiritual abuses (11-14).

Paul writes to them, “I could not speak to you as spiritual but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it…for where there are envy, strife and divisions…are you not carnal and behaving like [mere] men?”(1Cor3:1-3)

The Christian’s calling is a “heavenly calling.”(Heb3:1) Our citizenship is in heaven.(Phil3:20) Thus, our conduct should not be like sinful man. However, this group is saved. Paul refers to them as “my brethren.”(1:11)

5) Christian -backslidden. From all outward appearances seems to be unregenerate. Sometimes this condition will last for years. But possesses a spark of Life; is saved. Like prodigal, can return in repentance.

First of all, please don’t misunderstand the choice of the word “spark.” This is not the unregenerate’s notion of the “divine spark” within. But rather a term to illustrate John’s word “seed” (1Jn3:9). The fact that we are “born” of God. While this person is so fully committed (at the moment) to living for self and the world, he truly does have the Holy Spirit, and from James’ thoughts (ch3), it would only take a spark to be ignited into full flame. And that spark is still there. Albeit, dormant at the moment.

Luke 15 best illustrates this person. The prodigal asks the father for the “portion of goods” that is due him.(vs12) He is not walking away, leaving all behind. But he is taking with him what is “his.” He goes and squanders everything, behaving lasciviously. But God hedges up his way (Hos2:6). And he is humbled into doing things he would never have drempt; a Jew feeding swine.(vs15)

But then, he “came to himself.”(vs17) And he remembers his “father.” He is still part of the “family.” Returns in repentance, and receives full restoration and fellowship. While he was “lost”(vs24), he was still in the family. He is still a Christian.

The sheep (not goat) was lost, until the shepherd went out and found him,(vs4) half fallen off a cliff and in tatters. Always remained a “sheep” but was wandering away. As the little toddler who decides to run off and “explore” and must be brought back to safety. Or the little one who decides to “leave home” and packs up the suitcase. But then, lunch time and/or nightfall arrives…and he remembers where “home” is.

6) Christian -backslidden. Turned over to Satan for destruction of the flesh. Sin unto [physical] death. But, saved nonetheless.

Of the church Paul called, “my brethren” he said, “for this reason (abuses regarding the Lord’s Supper) many are weak and sick among you, and many [have died]. (1Cor11:30) Of the “brother” who was in immorality, he says, “deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”(5:5) John writes, “If anyone sees his brother sinning…There is a sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.”(1Jn5:16)

In each of these cases the guilty one is called a “brother.” A Christian. But they are guilty of sin for which the Lord (in 2 cases) removed them from the earth. But the death is not eternal.

What, exactly, is this sin? We are not told. In one case it was immorality. In another, abuse at the Lord’s Table. The Lord knows each of His children, and disciplines each as is needed.(Heb12:6-11)

Q/A: Higher ‘Christian’ Standards?

Higher ‘Christian’ standards (re: “12 Kinds of People”)

READER QUESTION:
Do you agree categories 3-6 are saved (especially 5 & 6)? The author seems to believe that once saved, an individual remains saved even though his transgressions and backsliding conduct is worse than that of someone never exposed to Christ who will not be saved. It seems to me that once saved the standard of conduct required to remain saved ought to be higher (not lower) than that of those who have never been saved and so are damned. Personally, I doubt that backsliders were ever really saved, for if they experience Christ as you have, they would not backslide. If they have not, they have not been saved in the first place. I think the author is in error. A backslider should be measured by the same or higher standard as one never saved, for he has an even better understanding of and reason for Christian conduct.

VW ANSWER:
Yes, I have gotten these kinds of comments on other occasions….

Indeed, the standard for the saved ‘ought’ to be “higher”. That is what we proclaim on a regular basis, one of the reasons for the existence of this ministry, to exhort those claiming the name of Christ, TO -LIVE- LIKE IT. But the reader should keep in mind that the “12 kinds of people” piece is a categorization of all the various states of anybody who is living, whatever their individual percentages to the whole might be. If 5 was not a true Believer, Jesus would not have told the story of the prodigal son. If 6 was not a true Believer, Paul and John would not have spoken of the “sin unto death”. John uses the term “brother”…that’s a ‘saved’ person. Paul was writing to Corinth, whom he called “my brethren”.

Let me give two real-life illustrations of these two…

5) My uncle, whom I’ve spoken of a few years ago in a similar context. He was officially the “black sheep” of the family. There were three brothers: my dad and another uncle went into the ministry. The uncle divorced his wife, abandoned his children, did not provide alimony for child support (back in the 50s & 60s when there were not the welfare systems to help such abandoned), in order to chase some tail to Nevada for a quickie divorce and wedding; tried to pretend to continue being a pastor, until the elders in one church caught wind of his past, and sent them packing with a week’s notice. My own father, on the mission field, an affair which, when I finally learned of it towards the end of his life, and confronted him about it, he tried to deny it. Both of these went to their graves not having ever fully confessed their sins…and to this day, as a result, I wonder about their salvation.

The younger uncle, on the other hand, although he also went to the same Bible school the other two had gone to, which I also attended out of high school, lived a life of open debauchery (there was no pretense of righteousness with him, like with the other two; he was actually the most ‘honest’ of the three). He lived out of the back of his truck a lot, and his favorite ‘cologne’ was oil and grease mixed with field dirt, his favorite breath mint was chaw-tobacco, and his favorite mouth wash…beer. He would spend his spare time in town at the taverns, and when he was ready to leave for his night-on-the-town, his mother (my grandmother) would sometimes remind him to be sure he was wearing “clean underwear”. Thus, you know ‘what’ he was doing. And, he came home with a black eye one time, after he had been hitting on somebody else’s girlfriend/wife. Eventually he got married, and near the end of his life, he developed heart problems requiring open heart surgery to replace a valve. After he was back home from having been plugged up to various machines, his -life- was changed. As Zacchaeus told Jesus how he would right all the wrongs of his past life, so did my uncle….from the way he carried on business to the occasion where, in transit from the hospital to his home on the farm, he stopped by our apartment….and when he needed to lie down to rest, and was offered our bed to rest on….he refused, making a point of expressing, “That’s -your- (my wife’s and my) bed”. He would not lie down on ‘our’ bed, even with great urging from us (because it’s just -a- ‘bed’), but insisted on using the living room couch; going to great lengths in making it clear, his life change, even though his healing/ailing heart could likely have benefited from the bed. After he had been home long enough to make things right, and for the world to see the change, his condition then worsened, and the Lord took him.

Which of the three went to Heaven when they died? The other two (the preachers) I’m not sure of. But the so-called “black sheep”, the one whose life had consisted of debauchery…I truly believe the Lord got his ‘attention’ on that hospital bed, and he did as the prodigal son….he returned….and his heart was manifest in his changed life.

Even during his life of debauchery, there -was-, however, a ‘spark’ that was evident by the “witness” of the Spirit. (Rom8:16) But most people seeing him would have considered him to be lower than the low of the world. Most of the world’s people, the unsaved, were ‘better’ people than he was. But he was, nevertheless…saved. I believe he was both 5 & 6. He returned to the Lord, like the prodigal. But his death was also at the ‘prime’ of his life….thus, I believe he also had sinned the sin-unto-death. But, God did not take him ‘suddenly’ in total unrepentant judgment, but put him in the hospital first, so he could repent; and he arrived in Heaven confessed/forgiven.

6) Years ago I was in a church where the pastor was a Godly Scriptural doctrinal teacher. Likely a better teacher than any of the professors I had had at Bible school. But the church was full of both carnal Believers as well a pretend [c]hristians. Nobody criticized his preaching/teaching directly (due to their smitten consciences at hearing God’s Word), but they found all sorts of other things by which to stir up quite a ruckus, and eventually, after some of these church members were also calling his home with threats against his family, and such things, they politicked him out. During the course of these politics, one of the church’s elders, a ringleader in the dissent, said to this pastor’s face words to the effect, “You are not a true man of God!” Within a week he was dead, of unexpected heart failure. Nobody in the congregation ever voiced the connection (that I heard of), but at the time in my heart, when I heard the news of his death, I -knew- it was God’s judgment for having cursed God’s anointed. (sorta like Nabal with David)

Yes….I think it is evident that -most- of those who claim to be [C]hristians, but are living like the world, are from 7 & 8; they are not truly saved. And of those who truly are saved, a higher percentage would also be in 3 & 4. But the fact that 5 & 6 -do- exist is Scriptural. And examples in real life also bear them out.

But also, indeed, there are the 11’s….the ones who are saved, and then draw back; either through purposeful ‘rejection’ of God, or due to carnality and eventually their hearts’ desire towards God -follows- their behavior; the opposite of Pr16:9. But the 5 & 6s -do- exist, albeit in smaller numbers, compared to the rest.

One of the reasons the Scriptures have been written as they have is (precisely) BECAUSE these various states of backsliding exist, where God pleads with the backsliding sinner to “turn, turn….for why will you die…O house of Israel” (Ezk33:11) The term “house of Israel” indicates those belonging to God. And Israel’s record is written for us (the Church) as “examples” so that we should not live in the same kind of debauchery and idolatry that they did. (1Co10:6-11) And notice how Paul warns against (#11)… “Therefore let him who thinks he is firmly established take heed that he not fall.” (vs12)

Embryonic Stem Cells

READER QUESTION:
If you have any insight on Pres. Bush’s articulated position on stem cell research, I would appreciate it — If a fertilized human egg is an embryo and therefore a human life, then why does Pres. Bush care to which stem cell line it belongs? I do not understand the distinctions drawn by Pres. Bush (1) between fertilized eggs of stem cell lines created before a date he has previously designated and any other fertilized egg (like the 250,000 currently stored at fertility clinics in the U.S. which will otherwise be destroyed if not used in research — is there a moral preference for destroying fertilized eggs rather than using them for therapeutic research?) and (2) permitting private funds and state taxpayers (California has authorized $3 billion for stem cell research) to research stem cells, while prohibiting U.S. government funding of stem cell research. It seems to me that if Pres. Bush really believes a fertilized egg is an embryo deserving government protection, then no act of using them for research should be permissible, whether on (1) stem cell lines existing before a designed date or (2) funded by the U.S. government or anyone else. I would think a federal murder statue punishing researchers and abortionists would be the solution, not a partial limitation on U.S government funding. I suspect you agree that no stem cell research ought to be permitted on fertilized eggs, but do you understand the distinctions Pres Bush is drawing between (1) stem cell lines existing before a designed date or (2) funded by the U.S. government?

VW ANSWER:
On this one, I share (totally) in this person’s frustration about Bush. The kind of prioritizing/sorting that Bush does in his mind is kinda like the pharisaical hypocrisy Jesus spoke of regarding swearing… on the temple, or the ‘gold’ of the temple…or the altar, or the ‘sacrifice’ on the altar. It -all- belongs to God. (Mt23)

I’m also frustrated with Frist’s recent flip-flop, returning from a ‘moral’ perspective to his (as the media has labeled it) medical background, back to ‘science’. (Apparently, calling it ‘science’ makes the murders amoral and alright!)

The whole area of ’embryonic’ stem cell research is totally bogus. Even as the news is coming out about Frist’s flip-flop, last night’s news was telling about a breakthrough in ‘adult’ stem cell progress, where they have gotten blood vessels to propagate in legs where there had been diminished blood supply. Illustrating how research on a person’s -own- stem cells has not yet been exhausted, and actually might be a ‘better’ source. So why are they messing around with embryos?

And also in Gary Bauer’s mailing yesterday, this paragraph:

“Some supporters of this research are cynically making the absurd claim that it is pro-life to kill these cells, these earliest forms of human life, in order to help the living. It is a false choice. Embryonic stem cell research is nothing short of medical cannibalism. We are literally destroying our next generation in order to save ourselves. That is not the mark of a compassionate society.”

How many parents, if they needed a questionable procedure, would suggest to the doctor: Here, try it on my 3-year old daughter, first, to see how it works. That’s what embryonic stem cell research is. Those embryos -are- little children. It is how the psalmist recognized it…which is in God’s Word:

“For You have possessed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb… My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Your eyes saw my embryo, and in Your book I was enrolled, and all my days had been preordained, when as yet there was nothing.” (~Ps139:13-16)

How much clearer can it be!

I mean….this ‘debate’ is really a -short- one; it is really NOT a debate, because the issue is so clear-cut and obvious. There really should be NO debating it. Those embryos are little ‘people’ they are hacking into, just as surely as if they were to take a person, strap them down, and start cutting, hacking, sucking, inserting, taking a part from one place and reattaching it somewhere else, maybe take some animal parts and stir it into the mix. Same thing, exactly. Whether those ‘cells’ were created 10 years ago, or yesterday, it makes not-a-difference. They are all ‘people’. In the above example, do you wish to strap down a 90-year old to start chopping away, or a 2-year old? Same argument. It is something a society should not even question. Such an ‘option’ shouldn’t even be entering the mind! End-of-discussion!

And this is also why I believe so-called ‘fertility’ treatments are wrong. Sure, it helps a couple conceive….but the process also includes ‘extra’ embryos, which when the desired results are achieved, those ‘extras’ get ‘discarded’. They THROW AWAY… -PEOPLE-. How does that differ from the various “ethnic cleansings” that many despots have engaged in throughout history?

Only difference, we cannot hear the screams, so we can pretend it’s not true. At the end of guns and swords the blood, gore and suffering is obvious. In the womb the scream is “silent” as they are vacuumed/sucked apart, limb from limb. At the embryonic stage, what are the screams of those going to God’s judgment due to having been hatched from unsaved parents?

Does ‘that’ answer the question sufficiently, even if somewhat bluntly and gruesomely….

7) Unregenerate -thinks they are saved. Have gone forward, active in the church. Never truly repented. Deceived.

“..even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be manifest, that none of them were of us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.”(1Jn2:18b-20) The Spiritual Christian will know/perceive/recognize this person.

That they were “from us” indicates that the person was “part of” the congregation. They were intermingled just like the “wheat and tares.”(Mt13:25)

Until many weeds grow to full maturity they are scarcely distinguishable from the plants intended to be in the garden/field. But once grown to maturity, their fruit is apparent. When they are small, a person often lets the weeds grow, lest he uproot the genuine plant by mistake. In the same way the farmer said to his servants, “No, [don’t weed them out yet] lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, ‘first gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn'”(Mt13:29-30)

Many of these wither up and fall by the wayside. And people will think they “lost their salvation.” When actually, they were never saved in the first place. Others will continue on to the end, playing the part, and will plead with Christ, “Lord, Lord, did we not in Your name…[do all sorts of wonderful Christian service]?” And He will declare, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.”(Mt7:22-23)

8) Unregenerate -acts like Christian, knowing they are not. False prophets…wolves in sheeps clothing

“… after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. Therefore watch…” (Acts20:29-31)

This group is also “part of” the congregation. They are in the church/s, serving in ministry. But they are not deceived. Many of them actually knowingly worship satan. Have purposely infiltrated the church IN ORDER TO wreak havoc. Their whole design is to PURPOSELY PRETEND to be Christians, while knowingly subtly distorting Truth. Many of them have come in as “former” rock musicians, bringing demons with them directly into the Church. Do we have any Scriptural precedence for this kind of thing?

In 1Kgs22 God had a conversation, and asked, “who will persuade Ahab to go…[be killed in battle]?”(vs20) And a spirit came forward, volunteering to be a “lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.”(vs22) Since we know who the “father of lies” is(Jn8:44), we know this had to be a demon. But the prophets all appeared to be “regular” prophets.

And yet, as we are told to “test the spirits” Jehoshaphat discerned their source and asked, “Is there not still a prophet of the LORD here, that we may inquire of him?”(vs7)

Of this group we are exhorted, “Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.”(Eph5:11)

9) Unregenerate -has heard gospel but rejected.

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, ‘Lord, who has believed our report?’ So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: ‘There sound has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.” (Rom10:16-18)

10) Unregenerate -has not heard gospel.

“For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law…for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them..in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ. (Rom2:12-16)

11) Saved – Fall away purposely, permanently. -cannot be saved (again) -better if they had not been born -better if they had not known the Truth -how much worse their punishment?

“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die. (Ez18:24)

Some will retort, “That’s Old Testament!” OK then, try this out… “For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation. Anyone [in the Old Testament] dies without mercy…of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant…a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? …now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”(~Heb10:26-38)

This expression “draws back” means to “timidly retreat, to withdraw oneself, to turn back, to deny.” What did Jesus say? “No one having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of heaven.”(Lk9:62) And further, “But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.” (Mt10:33) One of the accolades for Philadelphia was that they had not “denied” Jesus’ name.(Rev3:8) The ones who draw back start following Christ, but decide the cost is too great (Lk14:28), and turn back.

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. (2Pt2:20-21) It says they “escaped” the world and have a “knowledge” of the Lord. They left the world to follow Christ. That’s a definition of “repentance,” which is how one is “saved.”

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit…if they fall away, to renew them to repentance… since they crucify again…the Son of God.” (Heb6:4-6) Since Jesus died “once.” (9:28) Among other things, you notice they “partook” of the Holy Spirit. Again, a definition of a Christian…one who has the Holy Spirit.(Rom8:9)

This is the sorriest state for a person to be in. Not only is he worthy of the worst punishment…he is the only catagory of living humanity that cannot [is IMPOSSIBLE] be saved.

Our goal, naturally, is to attain to #1. A fully mature Believer. Most “good” Christians would reside as #2. The great “men of God” and not-so-great “faithful” servants. Where the confusion sets in is the catagories between #3 and #8. While, for convenience, we have listed 11 catagories, and delineated the characteristics; the reality is that there is much overlapping of characteristics. The carnal Christian and the Natural man are so often hard to tell apart, because they are both functioning “in the flesh.” And some people will combine some of these things together. Or will periodically shift from one to the other.

So, how many people are in each catagory? Only God knows. To be sure, the predominance of the world population fits into the unregenerate #9 and #10. They’ve not come to Christ, nor made any pretenses. The rest would obviously fit into the small percentages that statistics label “christian.” The sad part is the likelihood of the high percentage of those who fit #7. Deceived Pretend christians. The “sad” part is that most of them don’t even realize they are not Christians! We have about two generations of church-goers who have not heard the gospel of repentance. All they have heard is “faith, love and grace.” But as we know, Satan believes. And…what good is love and grace? …without repentance? “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.” (Rom10:17) We have a couple of generations of perverted translations of Scriptures that have been popularized. And while it is possible to be saved after reading them, the preachers have further watered down the Gospel by not teaching even that which is there at their disposal!!

Thankfully, the Lord knows those who are His. He knows the heart. So we do not need to go around with this list, bashing people over the head. But as we are told to discern and relate to certain apostates Scripturally, perhaps this list will help us understand what it is we are observing. First of all, examining ourselves.(2Cor13:5) And then discerning and responding to those who infiltrate. (Acts20:29-31,1Jn4:1) And finally, “on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.”(Jude22-23)

And then, there’s the final catagory…

12) Christian -newborn, baby Christians

“Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.”(1Pt2:1-2)

“but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, ‘Abba, Father.’ The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.”(Rom8:16)

Any of the unregenerate, originating in catagories #7-10, can come to Christ. “The Lord is…longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”(2Pt3:9)

Lest anyone think his sins are “too great” to find forgiveness, Paul wrote, “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief…because I persecuted the church of God.” (1Tm1:15,1Cor15:9) If He could save Saul/Paul, He can save you!

We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain. For He says:

“In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.”

Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. (2Cor6:1-2)

Amen!

Unpardonable Sin -Word definitions

Q.
11) Saved – Fall away purposely, permanently. -cannot be saved (again) -better if they had not been born -better if they had not known the Truth -how much worse their punishment?

What is this “unpardonable” sin(s)? All of us have (knowing better..even at the very time) done something we KNEW was not right. Right off, I can think of buying a software program that I just knew I had to have, but that it was not in God’s will. (This sounds silly, but to me it was wrong and I knew it at the time). This tends to suggest that if we sin, knowing it is sin, there is no forgiveness. But then I know God is changing me daily, making me what He wants me to be. I stumble along the way, of course. I know I’m still “in” Christ. Where is the correlation????? This one scripture has troubled me before.

Does this mean PURPOSELY, PERMANENTLY TURNING AWAY and in doing so, deny Christ after having known Him? A specific decision to turn from God? Not merely knowingly doing something we know is not God’s best, then truly repenting, letting God pick us up again, and going forward again with God?

A.
The “unpardonable sin” (as many have come to call it) is not some specific sin/act one commits. I hear people talk about “seven deadly sins” and others, probably based on Catholic traditions of penance and purgatory, come up with a hierarchy of sins. Some being better/worse than others. As though, if one commits “this” sin, he’s REALLY doomed, but these “others” over here, are “not so bad.” And, while it may be the case that some sins have more or less outward effect on lives….sin is sin. And comes under the sentence of death.

John writes, “Whoever abides in Him does not sin…whoever is born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin.”(1Jn3:6,9) On the other hand he says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”(1:8) Is this a contradiction?

(1Jn3:6,9) refers to the same thing Ez18:24 (above) does. The word/s “commits iniquity” has the meaning, “to fashion, to work at, to make/produce, prepare, acquire, ordain, institute …iniquity.” This, in the context of him “turning away/back” from his “state of being in” righteousness. He was in a “position” of righteousness (which is what Christians are), turns his back upon that “essence” and turns to “a way of wickedness.” He embraces wickedness and sin as “belonging to” him.

If a person abides in Christ…he does not also “embrace” sin. So, how does this compare with 1Jn1:8, “if we say we have no sin?” This word “have” is a transitory word. To “have it in hand, it’s external, something one clings to.” This is due to our physical natures, from which we have not yet been “changed.”(1Cor15:53)

Kinda like…we are walking in this filthy earth. And as dust/mud might cling to us from walking through a barnyard/corral, so, in the same manner sin clings to us as we are “sojourners.” But it is not an “essential part” of us. When we go into the house for supper after working outside, we “wash up.” In the same way, we “confess our sins.”(1Jn1:9) As Jesus washed the feet of His disciples He said, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean.”(Jn13:10)

So…after all that lengthiness…to your paragraph begining “does this mean…” …”yes” that’s it. Let us remember: DOING righteousness or sin does NOT MAKE us rightous or sinner/s. We sin because we ARE sinners. We do righteousness, because we are righteous. We are saved by Christ’s act of dying on the cross, which we receive. And we can CHOOSE TO walk away from God.

The “unpardonable sin” as Jesus spoke of it, was “blaspheming the Holy Spirit.”(Mk3:29) This was in the context of them (Israel) rejecting the Holy Spirit, as they had the Father in the O.T. and Jesus in the Gospels when they crucified Him. And found themselves cut away from the tree for a time.(Rom11)

But we see from Heb 10:29, that the same principle is at work for the one who “sins willfully after [receiving] the knowledge of the truth.”(10:26) It is the Holy Spirit Who has been “insulted” [blasphemed].

In the O.T. people worshipped God [way “out there” someplace]. Although He wanted to be in their hearts.(Deut30:13,5:29) But the Church has the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.(Jn14:16,23) We are not separated by the priests, temple, veil, etc…but God is [in] us, as we are His temple/s.(1Cor6:19)

But, to knowingly buy some software that we know we shouldn’t. To look with lust at the opposite sex. To….”you-fill-in-the-blank” No…these are not unpardonable.

Cannot be Saved Again?

QUESTION:
Just a couple of points, for my benefit. Do you agree with the following. That no matter what a persons reasons for doing so, if they return fully to the sinful world, not confessing or repenting, intentionally, but to just return, and maybe in their own mind start all over again sometime down the line, they commit apostasy, blaspheme the spirit, quench it in themselves and are eternally lost. No matter how they might sob and cry 9 months down the line, wanting to start all afresh, its over. They cannot be saved again.

ANSWER:

There are those who backslide, but take their state of being saved with them. They are still the Father’s son, and in the hog pen turn to their senses and repent and return. They took their allotted inheritance with them. (Lk15:12) There are various catagories of this sort of backsliding.

The one who “cannot be saved again” is #11.

QUESTION:
Even if they were only 7 months after being saved with no teaching.

ANSWER:
This fits with some the catagories of Jesus’ “seed” of the sower. (Mt13) Some of those seeds sprouted up quickly…they had “life” in them…but died again right away for various reasons. Recommended reading at the Library:

Matthew ch13:1-23b

QUESTION:
Reason is to my understanding, that returning to a dead state would require another calvary to renew the persons soul (hebrews 6:4 – 6:7). Am I correct?

ANSWER:
That’s right. Christ died “once for all” (Heb7:27, 9:12,28)

QUESTION:
The situation is not that the person is incapable of repenting, but that they are incapable of having their souls renewed again? Am I correct?

ANSWER:
Well…that Christ died -ONCE-. He does not die again. His sacrifice was a “one time” offering. Man’s appointment is to “die once”. (Heb9:27) If he receives Christ’s redemption, and then throws it away, there is no more sacrifice. (Heb10:26) It was a “one time deal”. There is no more.

QUESTION:
Even if the person was tricked(in a way) into getting involved, in that the truth of the cost was hidden from them even when they requested to know if it would cost them, as they suspected that it would be costly and that they needed to be ready, it was kept hidden from them so as not to put them off making the crossing into Christ.

ANSWER:
I’m sure we could speculate the ‘zillions’ of personal scenarios. One thing is sure…God knows the heart. (Heb4:12) And He knows those who are His. (2Tm2:19) Most of those who are “tricked” are not really saved in the first place; and I would guess this accounts for 99% of the unregenerates in the “churches”. They have not yet “tasted the good Word of God” (Heb6:5) They have not yet -truly- “known the way of righteousness”. (2Pt2:21) They do not fit this scenario. They have never yet been saved, even though they “went forward” umpteen zillion times at crusades and camp meetings, etc. Nobody told them they needed to repent. The Word of God was not preached, so they had no basis for “faith”. (Rom10:17) They went to (rock) concerts, were told to pray, have faith, sign a card, go forward, repeat-after-me, speak in tongues, etc. But none of those things save. They never experienced the “birth from above”. (Jn3:3) They have never yet been “in Christ” where everything became “new” for them. (2Cor5:17) They have never been “of us”. (1Jn2:19)

That kind of person can continually go back and forth, in and out of a state of PSEUDO-savedness. But neither state is a TRUE Believer. They are not “#11”. They have not ‘walked away’ from Christ, because they were never “in Christ” to begin with. Make sense? They are floundering around in #7-9 (of the “12 kinds..)

QUESTION:
Then they decide to let go of their ideas that anything had to change, trusting in the messenger, get involved thinking that their preconcieved ideas that there would be a cost were wrong, and change was unfounded, they get involved, get testing, find out they are in trouble, alone, no teaching or fellowhship, they remain in some sin, resist the spirit, plod along for a few months eventually turn back willfuly, deciding to go back and straighten out the things which they would have ordinarily done first before getting involved, and try again later in life, despite little voice of conviction warning against this. No matter what a persons reasons, heb 10:32 approx -‘if any man draw back, my soul will have no pleasure in him’. Am I correct in this?

ANSWER:
Again…God knows the ‘individual’ heart. But this is a likely candidate for #11.

QUESTION:
Once the spirit departs from the person, he never ever can return to that person again? Is this correct?

ANSWER:
By definition…yes. The definition of a Believer is one who has the Holy Spirit residing. If the Spirit does not reside, he is not a Believer. (Rom8:9) If he was saved (the Spirit residing) at one point, and then “insults the Spirit of grace” (Heb10:29b) by kicking Him out, and turning their back on God and walking away, then, they can never return again.

But this does not happen by “casual sin”. In other words, if we slip up and disobey, that does not automatically make us “lose” our salvation. We were not saved by works. (Eph2:9) Neither can we be lost by works, because as “flesh and blood” (1Cor15:50) we have little sins (1Jn1:8) which need confessing from time to time (vs9), and Jesus’ advocacy propitiates for our sins. (1Jn2:1-2) As Believers we are “clean” in God’s sight because we have been “washed” (Tit3:5). Being thus “bathed”, we only need to periodically have our ‘feet’ washed (Jn13:10) from our journeys in this dirty world.